Civic Building Desire

[Black Curtains]

We all know the desire system is a little off, but what the heck is up with the Civic Building desire? EVERY time I play the normal game (story mode) it takes FOREVER to get the game to allow me to build a graveyard.

Just last night I was playing Land 2 normally (no mods) and the first village wanted a graveyard (was the only civic building missing). Expansion desire was zero, children zero, only food was up maybe 25%, civic building desire 100%. Put 3 scaffolds down in the big area by the water, does a graveyard appear? No. I get a medium abode (not even a large one). WTF? Why does it do that?

The same thing happens in the first village on Land 3. I always put the graveyard in one of the canyons because it gets hits by lightning if you put it on the beach, but the game won't let me make one even when that's the ONLY thing the villagers want. So I have to endure "need more civic buildings!" in that whiney demanding voice over and over until the game decides, "you know, maybe I need to spawn a graveyard, not a freakin' house."

Anyone have tips on this? Ideas? Insight? Gun to shoot the villager who keeps asking?

 

[vezrilx]

Uhm, don't you have lightning?

 

[Okapidragon]

It has nothing to do with the desires, it is what is needed for the village's "balance." If you are able to create a civic building, i.e. have your workshop and storage pit as well as like three small houses and four big ones, then if you've already had a fair number of people die, you will build a Graveyard by default, unless you move it closer to other buildings so there's only room for a creche, and if the children desire id higher you get a creche by default and can't make a graveyard until your next opening for a civic building.

Wonders decrease civic building desire, but obviously when they want a civic it's for a specific reason, i.e. too many villagers dying congesting the work schedule. However, for every civic building you make after the center, pit and workshop, the "vital" civic buildings (the other civic buildings being the creche, graveyard and extra workshops so you can build faster if you're the city-builder type), in other words, you first need at least seven houses, one of each type; I believe that each tribe has either three small houses and four large or vice-versa, but the total scaffold cost required for a complete set is 10 or 11. What kind of house you build, too, is decided by what the next-in-queue is; So if you have more or as many as of every kind of large house than the kind of small house that you have the most of, and if they are tied up there is one kind of small house there is less of, the size-2 scaffold will make two small houses instead of one large- or medium-sized house.

However, it is possible to have a village of all small-sized houses by only using size-one scaffolds; But you will be unable to build a creche or graveyard until you have at least one, and then another, of each kind of larger house. So it's at least seven houses for each civic building you get. On the flip side, you can just never bother getting extra workshops and the village, having no needs not being filled, will never desire civic buildings; Farms are typically needed enough in any situation that you would be building them in that they will be automatically built (they aren't counted as vital buildings, and unless there is a dire need for houses that overbears the need for food, the field will typically be built), village centers are an entirely new village (become a field when they are placed inside a pre-existent town), miracle dispensers are built automatically-- Though if food desire is high enough, sometimes a field will be built instead, you can circumvent this by building close to another building, so there is no room for a field-- And Wonders, unless they are out of range (they will turn into Village Centers) or too close to other buildings (either field or miracle dispenser, whichever is a higher priority), will always be built.

Some tricks to city building:
-If the villagers want a civic building but you don't want to build it, then only use scaffolds below size 3, except for wonders if you want to build them.
-Before the next building in queue is built, the one after that will not become available. If it is a large-size house, you can still build other kinds of small houses; And more importantly, if you have the wood to supply it, you can build several copies of the same kind of building at once. Beware, however-- If you do this with the largest-sized houses and then do any lower number for the other houses, those that are higher will be skipped on the next cycle in favour of higher-priority homes. In this way, though, you can build, say, four of each home, and have enough for the entire village for the first hour or so of play in most normal, non-hardcore cases, and also build both kinds of civic buildings as well as a couple of extra workshops if you want.
-If you are not satisfied with the next-in-queue building, and the one you want is smaller than that you're given, just move the scaffold closer to another building to shift to the highest-priority that will fit in that radius.

That's about all I know, but it answers your question and more, so that should do. Hope it helps.  

 

[Black Curtains]

Uhm, don't you have lightning?

I fail to see what that has to do with my question.

It has nothing to do with the desires, it is what is needed for the village's "balance." If you are able to create a civic building, i.e. have your workshop and storage pit as well as like three small houses and four big ones, then if you've already had a fair number of people die, you will build a Graveyard by default, unless you move it closer to other buildings so there's only room for a creche, and if the children desire id higher you get a creche by default and can't make a graveyard until your next opening for a civic building.

I had figured you couldn't build a graveyard unless enough people have died but I didn't know about the rest of that.

Some tricks to city building:
-Before the next building in queue is built, the one after that will not become available. If it is a large-size house, you can still build other kinds of small houses; And more importantly, if you have the wood to supply it, you can build several copies of the same kind of building at once. Beware, however-- If you do this with the largest-sized houses and then do any lower number for the other houses, those that are higher will be skipped on the next cycle in favour of higher-priority homes. In this way, though, you can build, say, four of each home, and have enough for the entire village for the first hour or so of play in most normal, non-hardcore cases, and also build both kinds of civic buildings as well as a couple of extra workshops if you want.

This is very interesting! I had no idea you *had* to have certain numbers of every type of house. No wonder I have such a hard time. Wow, with this info my whole strategy will have to change. I was always reluctant to build the larger homes because they seem to become abandoned much more often than the small ones. I thought I was helping control the population better by having smaller homes, obviously not! I also never thought of building more than one workshop. I didn't even know you could do that. I will have lots of experimentation to do with all of this. My mind is kind of blown :shocked

Hope it helps.  

Immensely! I've been playing incorrectly for over a decade! Holy crow!

 

[vezrilx]

Gun to shoot the villager who keeps asking?

So it doesn't stop the crying villagers, but it does make them beg for mercy instead!

And yeah, I know it's a little less helpful than Okapidragon's reply.

 

[Okapidragon]

I thought I was helping control the population better by having smaller homes, obviously not!

Actually, it kind of does help control population, but only in an evil way. As long as you keep about 25% ahead of the population in terms of empty space (if houses are becoming dilapidated, the solution is to take a person from a house with several people, and make them live in the empty house by making them a disciple next to it (after it is repaired)). I think that is actually kind of the point of it, that you have to move people from the older "neighbourhoods" to newer ones.

People that are homeless become hungry faster and slowly lose health throughout the night. And that makes them die faster, reducing the population. People will not breed as fast if there isn't room... Unless you have a creche. No breeders actually makes keeping ahead of the population very manageable, at least until you hit 1K or so (easiest because of the size to occupancy ratio of the houses in a Tibetan or Egyptian town, Japanese is also good). A lot of breeders and constantly making breeders and builders, if you are willing to micromanage, can get you up to 5K in an hour or so, if you have the Norse wonder to supply wood and food with. That's pretty much the idea behind Empire Builder maps.

And don't feel bad, I just started figuring this stuff out about two and a half years ago, and I've been playing since 2003. And focus pretty much entirely on city-building and creature training, which means it was a large part of my focus.

 

[Black Curtains]

@vezrilx- Ah, gotcha! Sorry I missed that before. I do enjoy listening to them beg for mercy, that is true...

@Okapi- Moving people from one house to another that empty over time is something I have done. When I notice that more homes are empty and dilapidated is usually when I make a breeder to two. My populations run like a roller coaster - low, spike, low, spike, low... I never have really found a medium steady growth rate. I don't mind it actually, it makes me feel more in control, and I AM God after all

Do you notice that some nations breed more than others? It might just be the town itself, location, resources, etc, but it seems like the Japanese and Eskimo villages breed much more on their own than others. Celtic seems to breed the least and sometimes when I leave a Celtic village alone for a while, I'll come back to find they have nearly died out. That never happens to Japanese villages when I play - those people breed like rabbits, with or without designated breeders. Maybe it's just me and the way I play, though.

 

[Okapidragon]

If your pop is spiking and dropping, it is because all your people are being born at once. Don't let people start dying off, because that causes a lot of problem; As a result, you make some breeders, and then a whole generation is born at once, and for a while everything is good, and then that generation dies of age and you have to scurry to make more breeders again. But, if you enjoy playing like that, then no problem.

I've not noticed any consistent difference in village growth rates. Some villages are placed in circumstances that effect them in the game, like one Indian village that is ravaged by wolves if you don't kill the wolves in Land 2. Also, the Celtic towns are all in situations in which they do not favour breeding quickly, except for Lethys' last town on Land 2, which I think most people don't play much in because it is at the end of the land. Also, by Esquimo, do you mean American Indian? One includes the other, but the Esquimo people are a tribe from modern-day northeastern Canada, and the tribe in-game most resembles Cherokees.